Thank you for this: the best, most interesting, most well-written, most compelling thing in my in-box this morning! ~pours another cup of coffee... sips~ Would that every day began as well!
Excellent, thank you! I'd forgotten having come across that story many years ago in Mary Renault's 'Bull from the Sea'. Her two Theseus novels (the other, 'The King Must Die') marvellous as I recall. Her hero can do no wrong (apart from calling down the wrath of the gods on his own son) and she has him abandoning Ariadne on Naxos only after having come across her sleeping form freshly sated from tearing a man apart in a maenad's mountain orgy; whereas the myth itself omits any such 'horniness', and has Dionysus himself arriving to console her after her abandonment and marrying her. Another version of her myth, according to the 'New Larousse Encyclopaedia of Mythology', has her being killed by Artemis and THEN marrying Dionysus.
Phaedra is Ariadne's sister, of course, and one might wonder whether Theseus had already developed a preference for her on the voyage from Crete to Naxos. As for Artemis and the bull from the sea, as a goddess junior to Poseidon she would have known to STEER clear (couldn't resist the pun!) of interfering in Theseus' divine father's punishment.
Hippolytus really does overdo the chastity bit, though, doesn't he? That in itself in a young man must have been a provocation for the goddess of love (and an offense against the gods' order of things in general) AND, if we rule out Olympian intervention and stick to human psychology, for Phaedra, a woman of around the same age as her handsome stepson married to a famously philandering older husband... But I won't go all Freudian on you; Euripides himself got Hippolytus' twisted psychology down pat with the misogynistic "O Zeus! why have you plagued this world with so vile and worthless a thing as woman?"
As an aside, did you really have to spell "Rape" with an asterisk and "porn" with a zero? There: I've done it myself! Brought down the wrath of the gods/Substack algorithms on your Substack! ;-)
And in a final aside, I don't know whether you're familiar with the 'New Larousse'. In the 1968 edition, beautifully illustrated and with an introduction by Robert Graves, the gods and godesses of Hinduism, a religion of more than a billion souls, are included alongside those of the ancient Greeks, Romans, Norse, Celts, et al. Monotheism doesn't get a look in, despite having its own share of devils and demons. Just goes to show that one culture's myths are another's religion.
I really enjoyed this column. Years ago I read (unknown where) that often in the Iliad the intervention of the gods was a reflection or enhancement of the character of the mortal, so the god doesn't make the human do anything, as much as emphasize the nature of the human. Do you think this may apply here? Also, Phaedra is Ariadne's younger sister. Maybe some issues there
My take is that H. Is pissed at dad, who was also a parthenos, but had Zeus as his sire. He seems to have drawn a raw deal, since other grandsons of gods often had kingdoms. Some vicarious dig at his mother’s people?
Thanks. I m glad to read a Feminist perspective after all the Ancient Greek and American misogyny underpinning AND overlaying all myths, and the stories about the “hero” Thesus in particular, including
Thank you for sharing this Greek tragedy 🎭 in such an engaging manner! I was drinking my coffee, loving every word and thought about these characters. Or should I say the Gods powerless puppets?
I have enjoyed Greek Mythology since the age of 12 or 13. However, over time my memory has become fuzzy because of the influence of Ovid and the Romans.
Thank you for your analyses. However, I’m not clear about one issue. Do your analyses have any contemporaneous to the playwrights time writings supporting your positions or are they strictly your opinions.
This question is not meant to say your analyses are not valid, I’m only asking out of curiosity.
Thank you for this: the best, most interesting, most well-written, most compelling thing in my in-box this morning! ~pours another cup of coffee... sips~ Would that every day began as well!
Same for me.
Excellent, thank you! I'd forgotten having come across that story many years ago in Mary Renault's 'Bull from the Sea'. Her two Theseus novels (the other, 'The King Must Die') marvellous as I recall. Her hero can do no wrong (apart from calling down the wrath of the gods on his own son) and she has him abandoning Ariadne on Naxos only after having come across her sleeping form freshly sated from tearing a man apart in a maenad's mountain orgy; whereas the myth itself omits any such 'horniness', and has Dionysus himself arriving to console her after her abandonment and marrying her. Another version of her myth, according to the 'New Larousse Encyclopaedia of Mythology', has her being killed by Artemis and THEN marrying Dionysus.
Phaedra is Ariadne's sister, of course, and one might wonder whether Theseus had already developed a preference for her on the voyage from Crete to Naxos. As for Artemis and the bull from the sea, as a goddess junior to Poseidon she would have known to STEER clear (couldn't resist the pun!) of interfering in Theseus' divine father's punishment.
Hippolytus really does overdo the chastity bit, though, doesn't he? That in itself in a young man must have been a provocation for the goddess of love (and an offense against the gods' order of things in general) AND, if we rule out Olympian intervention and stick to human psychology, for Phaedra, a woman of around the same age as her handsome stepson married to a famously philandering older husband... But I won't go all Freudian on you; Euripides himself got Hippolytus' twisted psychology down pat with the misogynistic "O Zeus! why have you plagued this world with so vile and worthless a thing as woman?"
As an aside, did you really have to spell "Rape" with an asterisk and "porn" with a zero? There: I've done it myself! Brought down the wrath of the gods/Substack algorithms on your Substack! ;-)
And in a final aside, I don't know whether you're familiar with the 'New Larousse'. In the 1968 edition, beautifully illustrated and with an introduction by Robert Graves, the gods and godesses of Hinduism, a religion of more than a billion souls, are included alongside those of the ancient Greeks, Romans, Norse, Celts, et al. Monotheism doesn't get a look in, despite having its own share of devils and demons. Just goes to show that one culture's myths are another's religion.
I really enjoyed this column. Years ago I read (unknown where) that often in the Iliad the intervention of the gods was a reflection or enhancement of the character of the mortal, so the god doesn't make the human do anything, as much as emphasize the nature of the human. Do you think this may apply here? Also, Phaedra is Ariadne's younger sister. Maybe some issues there
Delightful. A bit like Mid-Summers Night Dream meets Macbeth.
My take is that H. Is pissed at dad, who was also a parthenos, but had Zeus as his sire. He seems to have drawn a raw deal, since other grandsons of gods often had kingdoms. Some vicarious dig at his mother’s people?
I must remember, never be like Hippolytus!
Please I am begging you,,,, make the Venn diagram
sorry! Mary Renault’s which I read as a gospel retelling at age 13 or so. Thank you for the recollection @StStephen.
Thanks. I m glad to read a Feminist perspective after all the Ancient Greek and American misogyny underpinning AND overlaying all myths, and the stories about the “hero” Thesus in particular, including
Thank you for sharing this Greek tragedy 🎭 in such an engaging manner! I was drinking my coffee, loving every word and thought about these characters. Or should I say the Gods powerless puppets?
Outstanding analysis! What other plays are based on this lovely family? I can think of Racine's Phèdre.
I have enjoyed Greek Mythology since the age of 12 or 13. However, over time my memory has become fuzzy because of the influence of Ovid and the Romans.
Thank you for your analyses. However, I’m not clear about one issue. Do your analyses have any contemporaneous to the playwrights time writings supporting your positions or are they strictly your opinions.
This question is not meant to say your analyses are not valid, I’m only asking out of curiosity.
This is awesome. Thank you for doing it!