The ancient world offers ready examples of tolerance for sexual diversity and ambiguity.
Although Caesar was taunted about his masculinity, the idea that he was every woman’s man and every man’s woman was hardly disqualifying. I find the role of dominating mothers in modern times - e.g. MacArthur and Patton - as interesting.
Thank you for sharing that beautiful poem. The love-death of Patroclos and the meeting of Achilles and King Priam, Hector’s father, are the tender heart of Homer’s entire war-mad universe. If not misty-eyed when writing or speaking of it there would be something wrong with you.
I actually teach English language/literature in an international school in Homer's hometown of Izmir, Turkey. I taught Ria's poem yesterday, and their minds were blown, especially by the way her comments showed the way Ria's identity shapes the stories he reads. I have been trying to get across to these Grade 11s the importance of THEIR perspectives in reading all year, but this lesson was a breakthrough. And the quality of the poem... wow.
While same-sex attraction and breaking a society's conventional gender boundaries have a very ancient history, I am cautious using terms like 'queer', that hold a particular set of modern associations and assumptions, about the distant past. At risk of stating the obvious, we should not assume characters from 3,000 years ago in the Aegean Bronze Age thought like modern LGBTQ rights activists.
Although he worked from older legends passed down by word of mouth, Homer is at the beginning of recorded European literature. In the 27,000(?) lines of Epic Poetry attributed to him, he never once directly mentions same sex attraction. He does not condemn it, he just never acknowledges its existence.
We know that a few centuries later, when we have a much wider variety of surviving Greek literature, although that is heavily biased towards certain cities and social classes, a remarkably tolerant attitude applied among the elite in Athens and Thebes towards some forms of male homosexuality, although often with a preference for relationships between older men and adolescent boys, and in a power imbalance.
We can't assume it was the same in Homer's time, let alone in the time of the 'real' Achilles and Trojan War, if there was such a time, just as attitudes to what we would call gay relationships today are very different from 70 years ago.
Achilles' reaction to the death of Patroclus is extreme, although I understand that in modern times intense emotional bonds, without any sexual element, can form between soldiers under the stress of war.
Homer seems to go out of his way at times to stress Achilles and Patroclus's heterosexuality, which makes me wonder if there was already a legend that they were 'more than just friends', which Homer wanted to play down or avoid making explicit.
Achilles and Patroclus are portrayed as fully participating in the ruthless but accepted custom of war in those days, by which when Greek warriors captured an enemy town they usually killed all the men there and enslaved the women, who they were entitled to use for sex.
In Book 9 of the Iliad, when Agamemnon in desperation offers Achilles an immense list of benefits to return to battle, he includes the promise of '20 captured women of your choice, the most beautiful you can find' when they capture Troy. It is beautiful women, not handsome men or boys. Also in Book 9, we get a glimpse into Achilles and Patroclus's domestic arrangements in the army camp, they share a hut and dine together. However, at night they do not sleep beside each other, but each has an attractive captured slave girl to sleep beside them.
I wonder if any ancient bard celebrated the Theban Band, that deadly effective regiment of warrior-lovers that defeated the Spartans.
This is such a good question! I really should dedicate a newsletter to them ✍️
The ancient world offers ready examples of tolerance for sexual diversity and ambiguity.
Although Caesar was taunted about his masculinity, the idea that he was every woman’s man and every man’s woman was hardly disqualifying. I find the role of dominating mothers in modern times - e.g. MacArthur and Patton - as interesting.
Consider me lovingly haunted by this beautiful work.
I’ll pass this on to the poet 🥹💛
slaps!!! love it!!!
so glad !!!
Thank you for sharing that beautiful poem. The love-death of Patroclos and the meeting of Achilles and King Priam, Hector’s father, are the tender heart of Homer’s entire war-mad universe. If not misty-eyed when writing or speaking of it there would be something wrong with you.
I’m so glad you feel the same ❤️🔥
I really like this. I just finished reading The Iliad with my grade-11 students, and this poem will make a nice transition to our next unit on poetry.
Oh I’m so glad! How’re the kids finding classics?
I actually teach English language/literature in an international school in Homer's hometown of Izmir, Turkey. I taught Ria's poem yesterday, and their minds were blown, especially by the way her comments showed the way Ria's identity shapes the stories he reads. I have been trying to get across to these Grade 11s the importance of THEIR perspectives in reading all year, but this lesson was a breakthrough. And the quality of the poem... wow.
Beautiful. Thank you for sharing.
You’re so welcome ❣️
What a stunning poem.
Gets me every time. I want it painted and framed on my wall.
Oh, this is a gorgeous piece ❤️
Isn’t it ❤️🔥
Thank you! That's definitely my favourite duo - comes right in ties with Apollo and Scamander. That's my take, hope you'll like it.
https://substack.com/@helenashistory/note/p-157381304
A wonderful nod to this dynamic duo (and three cheers for the Stephen Mitchell translation of The Illiad!)
While same-sex attraction and breaking a society's conventional gender boundaries have a very ancient history, I am cautious using terms like 'queer', that hold a particular set of modern associations and assumptions, about the distant past. At risk of stating the obvious, we should not assume characters from 3,000 years ago in the Aegean Bronze Age thought like modern LGBTQ rights activists.
Although he worked from older legends passed down by word of mouth, Homer is at the beginning of recorded European literature. In the 27,000(?) lines of Epic Poetry attributed to him, he never once directly mentions same sex attraction. He does not condemn it, he just never acknowledges its existence.
We know that a few centuries later, when we have a much wider variety of surviving Greek literature, although that is heavily biased towards certain cities and social classes, a remarkably tolerant attitude applied among the elite in Athens and Thebes towards some forms of male homosexuality, although often with a preference for relationships between older men and adolescent boys, and in a power imbalance.
We can't assume it was the same in Homer's time, let alone in the time of the 'real' Achilles and Trojan War, if there was such a time, just as attitudes to what we would call gay relationships today are very different from 70 years ago.
Achilles' reaction to the death of Patroclus is extreme, although I understand that in modern times intense emotional bonds, without any sexual element, can form between soldiers under the stress of war.
Homer seems to go out of his way at times to stress Achilles and Patroclus's heterosexuality, which makes me wonder if there was already a legend that they were 'more than just friends', which Homer wanted to play down or avoid making explicit.
Achilles and Patroclus are portrayed as fully participating in the ruthless but accepted custom of war in those days, by which when Greek warriors captured an enemy town they usually killed all the men there and enslaved the women, who they were entitled to use for sex.
In Book 9 of the Iliad, when Agamemnon in desperation offers Achilles an immense list of benefits to return to battle, he includes the promise of '20 captured women of your choice, the most beautiful you can find' when they capture Troy. It is beautiful women, not handsome men or boys. Also in Book 9, we get a glimpse into Achilles and Patroclus's domestic arrangements in the army camp, they share a hut and dine together. However, at night they do not sleep beside each other, but each has an attractive captured slave girl to sleep beside them.